Talking Expat Taxes #22

Yeah, the, the famous French bureaucracy. I think if it didn't exist, I wouldn't have a job. If moving to France was just easy, then, then everyone would just kinda do it on their own.

Uh, one of, one of the beauties of working with a hand-holder is to kind of delegate your stress to somebody. Um, so it can be a stressful thing.

I like to cite Donald Rumsfeld, "You don't know what you don't know." And when you're moving to a different country with a different legal system, it's you're kind of walking into it blind until you figure out where the the pitfalls lie

Yeah. Yeah. It kinda, kinda generates an infinity of Wikipedia articles basically between all the Reddit pages and what have you. It can be very disorienting

That sounds great. So I'm initially from San Diego, California. I, decided to go to law school in America with an eye on going over here to France and finishing my law school studies in France 'cause I'd always kind of liked France. I'd already moved to France a couple of times, and I just felt good here.

I felt good abroad, that my life is a little bit higher amongst the Parisian streets and what have you. And so I did exactly that. I came over here then in 2016 to finish my legal studies. Then I went back briefly to sit for the New York Bar, got it, and then came back here to sit for the French Bar, got that, and that was in French, the French Bar exams.

So that was kind of my real test of, am I good enough for this country? Is my French good enough for this country? Um, and then from that, I, practiced immigration law for a few years at a couple different firms, and then launched my own firm 'cause I saw a very high demand for people, uh, particularly Americans, but not only Americans, who were needing help with navigating the whole system.

And I'd kind of seen my role be I was an outsider dreaming of how I could live in France. I became an insider navigating the system, and then now my role is to turn back towards the other outsiders, help them into France, help them navigate the system, potentially ultimately become French and so forth.

Yeah, it kind of helps me see both sides of the equation, you know? Uh, what would your lawyer advise you to do, but then what would you in the lived situation when you're filing for the visa, when you're sweating it in the local prefecture, when you're up for renewal, when you're in the hot seat, so to speak, how does that feel?

Uh, yeah, New York

My last year was in French law school, so it was at Sciences Po.

and I actually, I, if I had to complain, I don't think I learned that much at Sciences Po. I think it was the bar prep for the French bar that really taught me how French law works

Yeah. I actually, I loved

I thrived in law school. it's really good to learn theories of such, and then when you sit for the bar, that's when you're, "Okay, what are the actual laws of this state that I'm about to swear into?"

Yeah. Yeah. It, it becomes more self-directed. Like, you would wanna do six-plus hours a day of just intensive studying, very gritty textbook, kind of like thick idea.

You know, what are, what is the, what are the laws you're gonna be tested on? So it just, it requires some amount of self-drivenness. Hopefully makes you into a good product, whether you become a tax expert, a law expert, what have you.

Going through the wringer on anything hopefully, uh, it gives you those credentials that can make your clients trust you

I think it puts me in, in some pretty rarefied air too, because there's a lot of folks who do relocation to help people move to France who don't necessarily have a qualification, and that's fine. They might be experts in how the move is like. Um, and you get another group which is French qualified lawyers who are from France, whose name is Pierre or Jean-Claude, and they might really get French law but not really get what it feels like to be an immigrant in France.

So, um, uh, yeah, I don't feel like there's currently too much competition for my exact seat of being the, the lawyer that's done both sides of it.

So the very first question I ask when they reach out is, we're trying to figure out which visa category to kind of put them into. It doesn't take that much lead time to move to France. It usually is, two to three months is perfectly fine. For some other countries, you know, Portugal or Italy, you might need like a year of planning to make this, a successful move, and getting the appointment is the hassle.

Um, the quickest I've ever seen it was I had a consultation with a young woman on February 3rd, and by February 28th, she had the passport back in her hands with the visa sticker inside, ready to go, ready to move off to France and live her best French life. So, my law firm is specifically, uh, targeting just the questions of immigration law.

So how does a person move to France? Once we're here in France, how do you renew or change status? And then eventually, how do you pursue French citizenship? And then in the past year or two, we've expanded into what's called relocation to helping people get enrolled in French public healthcare, open a French bank account, exchange driver's license, and some of those more miscellaneous administrative, processes that go along with the move.

And then there's plenty of things I don't touch, um, at least for now, uh, because I think it's good to have a very specific scope and not be a generalist. So we've got a really nice coterie of, referrals that we have for like, oh, Franco-American tax experts, talk to these people. How does a person find housing in France, whether to rent or buy, talk to this person.

And then we all kind of work, very symbiotically together, where we cross-refer each other, and it gives clients reassurance to say, okay, I'm working with the best of the best housing person, with the best tax person, with the best money person, and so forth. It gives them reassurance.

No, cause France is a country of documents. France will always wanna see the right document. So just a s- simple matter of... I remember when I opened my bank account in France, it was 35 pages of signing this and that, and they wanna see that you have a, established residency in France.

They wanna see your French phone number. You might not have housing or a phone number before you even go to the bank account, so then are some banks easier than others? We work with a bank called CIC here in France. We found them to be the most conducive towards helping Americans get a bank account opened.

But honestly, there's not any single bank that I love in France. I think they're not all really geared towards helping immigrants arrive for the first time in France. They kind of already assume that your parents are here and can be your guarantor or whatever

Yeah. So one, one first thing I'll do is I distinguish between, the terminology of being, like, a visa-exempt tourist, like let's say we're talking about Americans.

So that's the 90-day rule, the Schengen tourist. You kind of show up for 90 days within a 180-day period. You can come and go as you please, in those 90 days.

But if you want to be in France for more than 90 days, you do need a long stay visa of any category, and there's about 30 categories. Confusingly, one of those is called the visitor visa. And, so if a person's moving to France, they might get that, and then spend every day for the rest of their life in France on a visitor visa.

And it sounds like visiting, but in fact, they're establishing residency in France. So I usually call it the long stay visitor visa to kind of separate out the ambiguity on that. And that answer to your question is about 90 days. If you're looking to spend more than a three-month chunk at a time in France, if you're that attached to it that you want to really be here, then it's time to talk about, okay, well then what are the various visa options on the menu?

Which ones are best suited for me? And that's the good time to start talking with an expert.

Yeah. So, you are more than welcome to purchase property in France without having any immigration status whatsoever in France. It can be tricky but doable to get a bank account in France before you've moved here. Um, the reason French banks don't love us is because we make them have to comply with American banking regulations, FATCA.

And that sounds like if you're a French banker, I also need you to comply with American banking regulations, you're gonna like, "Well, maybe I just don't want this as a client."

yeah. And, but you do need to have a bank account in France usually in order to secure purchase of a property. So that is a, a good idea to kind of line that up beforehand.

If you're not looking to purchase property before you get here, then you don't really need a bank account before you get here. I usually think of it as you might not have a re- yet have a really good sense of where you wanna be in France, like which city, and then within the city, which neighborhood until maybe about a year into France.

So I usually recommend getting here, once you're here, getting a lease agreement for a first year, testing out the waters, and then once you feel really solid, reaching out to one of the housing experts and getting a, a purchased property if that's what you're looking for. And when, once you have the visa sticker in hand in your passport, you can walk into a, a local bank and ask for them to open a bank account for you

Yeah. Uh, it's funny that you said half the year 'cause we'll circle back to exactly that reference of is it half a year or is it more than half the year with regards to tax implications. there's about three or so visa categories they usually push people into. I'm gonna take one step back and say it in a different manner.

There's basically four different types of visa in France. There's relationship based, and you usually know if you're married to a French person or a European or not. And so if that's not the case, we usually exclude that. visitor visa, student route, or work. Work as an employee or work as an entrepreneur in France.

Um, and so I find that I'm usually classifying people into are you likely gonna aim for that visitor visa, which I have in mind for, those who are retired and for teleworking, we're gonna circle back to that question. If a person's on the younger side of things and they wanna pursue a master's in France, what have you, I'm leaning towards the student visa.

And if they're in the midst of their working career, they're looking to become French one fine day, they want to enter the French workforce, then I'm looking toward like the entrepreneur visa. So it's, on my side, pretty quick to kind of see what kind of box we could put that person into.

There are a handful of different categories that I would describe as entrepreneurial visas. The main one is called Entrepreneur Libre Profession, and that is a, a very classic visa of, I've got a business idea, it can earn me more than French minimum wage, which is 22,000 euros, and I'll have more than one single client, of which some of those clients are hypothetically located in France.

And so you put together maybe a 60-page PDF, a case file of here's my business plan, here's the three-year financial projection, here's some letters of interest from people in France, my diploma, my CV. And then

you can really tie a bow around this idea of I'm thirsty to make a business in France, and I think it'll do fine, and it's my job to convince you that this will work out.

Um, and then that visa is valid for one year. It's renewable for four years after that. After five years of being in France, you can get a 10-year card, and the 10-year card's really good because it has full work authorization. It gets the administration off your back for 10 years, and then you're off to the races.

you're allowed to modify it. Basically, what they care about at the very first stage is do you have a good idea? But once it's up for renewal, they care, uh, well, how have you done? I had a, a Honduran gentleman who wanted to open a Honduran restaurant in 2020, and then COVID struck, and so he shifted towards a, like, a Honduran food takeaway model for the renewal, and they weren't gonna fault him for that just because it wasn't exactly the same business as what he proposed.

It's a great hypothetical. One of my first thoughts would be, would you be looking to maintain your US-based, LLC or what have you, and to only work on the US side of things, or would you also look for a local incorporation in France? If you're only thinking about running and operating your LLC on the US side, we'd start talking about the visitor visa.

Versus if you're looking to really incorporate and have a branch in France, then yeah, that would look more like the entrepreneur visa.

Yeah. I mean, and also, I

beside the point, but it's, Is what you're doing regula- regulated activity or not? And so we'd have to also make sure that you're compliant if it's on the French side of things. Um, you asked about is there an investor visa, and I said there's a handful of other categories.

A very similar category I like is the Talent Passport Corporate Creation, which is very similar to the entrepreneur visa. It's the same requirements, but then it requires a 30,000 euro investment and, showing you've either got five years work experience or a master's. The beauty of a Talent Passport, and there's like 10 different categories of Talent Passport, is you can sponsor your spouse.

You could bring in your minor kids, and they immediately get a Talent Passport family. The spouse can work in any manner. And so that could be really conducive if it's a family moving.

If

it's just

Right. The entrepreneur one doesn't require a 30,000 euro investment, which is can be convenient for some people, but it doesn't let you sponsor your family. We'd have to figure out something else to do for the family. So that's where it does

Potentially. Yeah, but then that spouse would not have the right to work in France on the visitor visa.

You cannot operate a French company or be employed by a French employer on the visitor visa. So then you have to take into consideration what does the spouse wanna do? Do they wanna have a career change in three years? What have you.

Yeah. Um, so there is also then an investor visa, which I would also say is quite similar to the entrepreneur visa, except they're looking for a 300,000 euro investment.

Yeah, yeah. And in addition to that Talent Passport corporation, there's a separate category called the investor visa, the Talent Passport investor.

And I usually just exclude that one 'cause why would you invest 300,000 to get a visa if you can invest 30,000 and get the same rights on a Talent Passport?

now if you're talking about just purchasing property, that's not active enough 'cause you're looking to say, "I have a company idea." Buying property is not in and of itself gonna get you a visa in France.

Uh, if you're gonna use that property to run a bed and breakfast or to be like a, a wedding venue, then we can start talking 'cause then it could be like an actual business idea.

No, I would consider that to be too passive of revenue. They're looking for something that's more of an active business idea

Um, I wanna, I wanna ricochet off one of your earlier parts of the question was you were asking about that six-month flipping point for when do I become a tax resident in France, when do I do not become a tax resident? If you're entering France on any one of these work statuses, then yes, you're gonna be a tax resident in France.

And it's very similar to America, that January through December is the tax year, and that we file in about April of a given year for the preceding calendar year. So if you just moved here right now in August of 2026 to France, you wouldn't have filed, you know, in April 2026. Maybe in April 2027 it'd be your first tax filing.

Uh, that would have to be clarified with an accountant, 'cause that first year can sometimes be a wash.

On a working visa, yeah. It's enough of, points of contact to France that we would already assume that you're a French tax resident. They look at the Franco-American tax treaty. So they say,

"Okay

Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. So we're talking about center of vital, uh, interest to say where's your job, where's your spouse, where are your kids enrolled, where is your community?

And for me, the shorthand is where are you spending more than half the calendar year, more than 183 days. You could theoretically make an argument that, like, all of your interests are on the US side, you're spending a little bit more than that in France in terms of days in the year, but otherwise it's still US...

And it would be an accountant that would make that final call about where you're required to file taxes, 'cause we as Americans always have to file and declare with the Fr- with the IRS. When we move abroad, it's a question of do we declare here and pay here in France, and then turn around to the IRS and say, "Listen, I've already filed in France, so I'm gonna benefit from that Franco-American tax treaty, which is super favorable, and it keeps me from having to pay double taxation.

And so I'll either use the foreign earned income exclusion or the foreign tax credit and, in that sense then do things in a completely correct way, have filed correctly and, um, and be good."

Yeah, I like that thought

Well, you might be depending on this teleworking question, which would be a good, uh, pivot to that.

So there's the long-stay visitor visa, which is for you come into France and you promise, "I will not take a French job. I will not have a French corporation or a French, you know, sign a French employment contract."

And for that, you might have in your passport a long-stay visitor visa, but under the tax treaty, if you're not spending more than half the year here in France, your account is probably not gonna tell you that you're a tax resident. Versus if you're-- are spending more than half the year here, then you'll wanna declare that you are a tax resident and file the appropriate taxes in France.

Let's talk about that Yeah, yeah. So what does that mean? Like, uh, think of go

I, um, we had this as an open question for years and years, and it really bothered me because the French government didn't agree with itself. We had the immigration authorities, like the consulates and the prefecture saying, "Yes, we're fine with international teleworking for a non-French company on the visitor visa."

We had the tax office saying, "No, no, no, we're not fine with that." So we had tension in the government to the point that, last fall I reached out to a deputy, like a mem- a congressperson in the French Assemblée nationale and I said, "Listen, there's this unresolved problem in law and we need them to answer it."

So then the deputy and his office agreed to meet with me and my law firm, and we talked about this and we prepared a question to be posed to the government. They then answered that in June of 2026, and it was the first time that they ever took a position. The spokesperson of the Ministry of the Interior who handles immigration says, "We are fine with international telework for a non-French company on the visitor visa.

That's not conflictual."

And that was a huge moment of clarity.

In their answer, they could've been clearer. They're like, "Yeah, if you're getting paid abroad and filing taxes abroad, then we're fine." And so then I read that, I was like, "Okay, cool. But what about if we're not paying taxes abroad?

What if we're here in France?" Which a lot of people are. So I think we need more

of tackle that,

but I already feel reassured that they've already given us that much clarity so far and that it was essentially, listen, we cannot monitor what work you're doing abroad, so how can we possibly

Yeah. So to answer your question, how could France know? They could always do an audit, right? They could always look, verify someone's bank accounts and tax situation. So the core question was, well, are we at least allowed to work for this non-French company? 'Cause to your point, like, isn't this not in the France's interest?

I think that it very clearly is in France's interest to say, "We're here in France. There's a really high unemployment rate in France, but I'm not taking a job that belongs to a French person. So I go down to the Monoprix grocery store, I'm shopping there, I'm buying, you know, 100 euros of groceries.

I pay, I leave. I have not taken a job from the Monoprix. I'm not taking the grocer's job, but I'm boosting that economy locally and then paying taxes on that here in France. France would love for me to pay income tax on my American salary," you know? So, like, France is,

Say, say it again?

Yeah. I mean, to the question of there's still a, you know, a de minimis amount of fees that we're paying every year for our, um, for our visas and for the renewals and if you're spending less than half the calendar year here in France then yeah, you're not paying income tax on that but you're also not using the streets and the firefighters as much as a person who is living here year round.

You're instead paying income tax in your home country like the US 'cause you're using those streets and fireworks ... and firefighters more.

Right. Yeah, I, I, agree. And I think France should have at some point sat down and created a digital nomad visa like Portugal's done, like Italy's done. Italy has the non-working visa, which is like the retiree visa, and then they've got a separate one for the digital nomads. France hasn't done that. They just have been shoehorning, you know, de facto all of these teleworkers into the visitor visa all these years, and then finally after the fact saying, "By the way, that's all fine.

The, the way that we've done that is fine."

Yeah.

I brought that up to the deputy. I was like, "Listen, we could all invent a new visa right here, right now. That sounds like more homework than going back and just saying, 'By the way, this is authorized, uh, under the current visa categories that already exist.'"

Yeah

And one good thing to talk about for retirees is the healthcare question. So retirees do also go on that visitor visa. The visitor visa is valid for one year, renewable indefinitely. After five years of being here, you can start to ask for the 10-year card. Um, and in

Yeah, it's renewable indefinitely, and then after five years you can already start to request the

10-year card

annually

For 10

Um, and there's this healthcare question. France has this radical notion that healthcare is a human right and that everyone living in France should enroll in the system, and that the more people that you put in the system, the safer the safety net gets. There was this question of, well, how does this retiree contribute to it?

Because, like, I'm an entrepreneur, so I pay into-- a portion of my earnings go to healthcare. For my employees, part of the line item in their payslip is going towards healthcare, but a retiree doesn't have those things. So, um, for years it's been like a, a fractional proportional amount of your worldwide earnings goes towards paying for healthcare.

What the deputy proposed last year was to have, like, a fixed rate that every, retiree on the visitor visa knows, okay, it's gonna cost X thousand euros to get healthcare in France.

They haven't determined what that number is yet.

Exactly right. Yeah, and that's the new proposal, and they haven't yet decided what that amount is.

I can't assume it's gonna be too, too high because France usually... I mean, French minimum wage is seventeen thousand. The average French person makes two thousand euros a month, so how high could they really make it?

Um, and they wanna see housing lined up, so like three months of Airbnb. And then once you get here, you can start to ask for a lease agreement

When you get the visitor visa, you have to demonstrate you've already lined up, um, 12 months of insurance, private insurance.

uh, so it, it could be a company that's based in the US or UK or what have you, but to purchase like a 12-month coverage that covers you, in France and across the Schengen Area

for a minimum

Yeah, I think what they do is they have their US coverage, they line up health coverage to start when they make the move here to France, and then they have private health insurance for that first year. After three months, they start to file for health- public health care, and it takes, like, about a year to actually get the thing.

So by the end of that first year, they've gotten French public health care, they drop their private coverage, and they go onto the public system going forward

Yeah, Yeah, exactly.

Exactly. Yeah. So, I mean, that's why I feel like I don't have that hard of a time selling France. It's relatively straightforward and quick to get that first visa. It's not so quick to get the renewal, but that's okay.

Um, that the barrier of entry, let's say for the visitor visa, is the healthcare, housing, and finances.

That the, the most important threshold is that finances and it's not that high of a barrier. And that once you get here, you're in the system, so you pay into the system and you benefit from the system in terms of healthcare, in terms of taxes, the same goes. And then you're off to the races. You're living your best French life.

Uh, you're eating your croissant in the morning time and you're living what you thought might not have been possible but is actually quite doable

Yeah. Well, I tell you what, there's a very international airport in Paris. I can let her travel back, maybe a flight to Atlanta and then a regional flight over to you. So I think it'll be

Yeah, absolutely. So my website is danieltostado.com. Uh, we're gonna soon shift the website over to tostadoavocat.com. That's the name of my law firm. And then on the website, there's a contact form. We reply within a working day. It's not just me. There's about 20 of us in the law firm. Um, and so we are, yeah, reared and ready to go and help- ready to help people make this move

Cheers. Thank you